{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/8p5v699w6q/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Brian Liberge, June 18. 2024"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/255/original/Aviary_TRL_Header.png?1704389184","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eKnown also as \"Sister Freddie Anne Willing,” Brian is a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence, an organization of trans-nuns committed to community service, ministry, and outreach.  Self-described as “gender-queer” and comfortable with male and female pronouns, Brian was born and raised in the Highlands area of Lynn across from the Ford School.  He held deep connections to the city, even when his immediate family moved to Saugus.  Her family had heavy ties to St. Stephen’s Church, which provided them with food support during lean times and instilled an ethic of community service.  Although non-binary and trans were not part of the popular vocabulary during his childhood, St. Stephen’s had always been supportive of the gay and lesbian community.  Brian only came to learn about gender and sexual identity through private explorations of the internet in his parents’ basement.  The internet provided him a lifeline to other communities and a means of self-expression.  Still, his identity would remain muddled for years.  He would major in Theater at Suffolk University, work as a computer specialist, marry two women, and father a child.  He discusses the history and social advocacy of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and his evolution as a queer advocate. \u003c/p\u003e"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eKnown also as \"Sister Freddie Anne Willing,\u0026rdquo; Brian is a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence, an organization of trans-nuns committed to community service, ministry, and outreach. \u0026nbsp;Self-described as \u0026ldquo;gender-queer\u0026rdquo; and comfortable with male and female pronouns, Brian was born and raised in the Highlands area of Lynn across from the Ford School. \u0026nbsp;He held deep connections to the city, even when his immediate family moved to Saugus. \u0026nbsp;Her family had heavy ties to St. Stephen\u0026rsquo;s Church, which provided them with food support during lean times and instilled an ethic of community service. \u0026nbsp;Although non-binary and trans were not part of the popular vocabulary during his childhood, St. Stephen\u0026rsquo;s had always been supportive of the gay and lesbian community. \u0026nbsp;Brian only came to learn about gender and sexual identity through private explorations of the internet in his parents\u0026rsquo; basement. \u0026nbsp;The internet provided him a lifeline to other communities and a means of self-expression. \u0026nbsp;Still, his identity would remain muddled for years. \u0026nbsp;He would major in Theater at Suffolk University, work as a computer specialist, marry two women, and father a child. \u0026nbsp;He discusses the history and social advocacy of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and his evolution as a queer advocate.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Through A Rainbow Lens"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Through A Rainbow Lens"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/255/original/Aviary_TRL_Header.png?1704389184","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/328/small/Brian_Liberge_June_18_2024_2024-06-19_14-17-17.mp4_1722533912.jpg?1722533916","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Brian_Liberge_June_18_2024_2024-06-19_14-17-17.mp4"]},"duration":4536.755,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/328/small/Brian_Liberge_June_18_2024_2024-06-19_14-17-17.mp4_1722533912.jpg?1722533916","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-unitedlynnpride.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/247/328/original/Brian_Liberge_June_18_2024_2024-06-19_14-17-17.mp4?1722533904","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":4536.755,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Brian Liberge transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\n2024. My name is Andrew Garrett. I'm a professor of history at Salem State University, and I'm conducting this interview as part of the mass humanities funded project through a Rainbow Lens a reflection on lens LGBTQ plus history. I have the honor of being joined today by Brian LaBerge, also known as Sister Freddie. Anne Willing, who was born and raised in Lynn. Freddie is a Saugus High graduate with a degree in theater arts from Suffolk University. He works as a computer specialist and has served in a number of roles advocating for LGBTQ plus rights. Thank you for joining me today. Can I confirm that I have your permission to record?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=0.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nYou do have my permission to record.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=46.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nThank you. So you were born and raised in Lynn, um, and obviously have deep connections to the community since your life. Your folks were largely lifelong learners as well. Um, how would you describe Lynn to someone who had never heard of the city before?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=49.0,69.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nYou know, I that's great. I love that because it's a question that I do find myself answering. Uh, as someone who, uh, travels around, uh, New England a lot with the work that I do. Uh, Lynn has a reputation for being a a tough place, right? Uh, they've never been able to shake that. Rym. Lynn. Lynn. City of sin. Uh, and I don't want to say that it's not tough, uh, because there are definitely parts of Lynn that are tough. It, uh, it's a dense city. Uh, a lot of it, uh, contains a lot of people. And it's not always people of high income, but it's also a really big place, uh, with different neighborhoods feeling remarkably different from each other. Uh, and I think people forget that Lynn is more than downtown and some of its crowded neighborhoods sometimes it's also a place that has exceptionally tight communities. Uh, I rarely feel like I'm in danger in Lynn, and I can't say that about all the other places, uh, that I, I serve in. Um. Because I feel like a Lin. There's people around and a lot of those people will stick up for a stranger.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=69.0,157.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd. And which neighborhood did you grow up in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=157.0,159.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI grew up in the Highlands, uh, on Hollingsworth Street. That's almost across the street from the Ford School. Uh, and we spent a lot of time downtown in the common area. My family has very heavy ties to Saint Stephen's Episcopal Church, which is right on the common. Mm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=159.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd your mother has worked in higher education and your father worked in newspaper layout. Would it be fair to describe your upbringing as middle class?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=180.0,192.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, I think so. You know, the class lines get fuzzy the more you learn about them. So when I was very young, uh, we, uh, did not have much money at all. Uh, we relied on services like Saint Stephen's food pantry. Um, and my mother met my, uh, adopted father later when, uh, I was in the first or second grade, um, and, uh, slowly, our situation changed, uh, as I grew older. But, uh, certainly when I was very young, I, we were very far from middle class. And the longer that we have, you know, been out there, the better we have done. Um, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=192.0,248.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd tell me what Saint Stephen's meant to you and your family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=248.0,255.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nSaint Stephen's was a huge part of my life growing up. Saint Stephen's is an Episcopal church. Uh, but it doesn't feel like the Episcopal churches you see on TV. Um, it was the type of church where it wasn't uncommon to hear us. Some of the members of the congregation, uh, calling back during the sermon. Uh, it's a church who, when they do the passing of the peace in the middle of the service, the reverend in charge often has a difficult time getting people to go back to their seats because people want to say hello to absolutely everyone. Um, uh, it's it's a place that, uh, has always been grounded in community service. And I was able to see that, you know, from an exceptionally young age. Um, so it was it was really important to me. It was my community. But, um. On the topic of hand as well. And I, you know, we can do this now or later. It's also a place where I saw, uh, a religious community and it was a religious community that was very supportive vocally of the gay and lesbian community. But it was when I was growing up, it was not one that talked about the trans community. And of course, when I was growing up, we were just really starting to popularize non-binary identity. Um, so that didn't get talked about much either. Um, so while they were an incredibly loving place, um, as somebody who later discovered myself to be trans, non-binary, um, I had a difficult time processing those ideas while entrenched in that community, because I also grew up with in the age of the internet, I think I started having regular access to the internet in the third grade, and I learned very quickly about, uh, young people who came out to what they thought were loving and supportive families, only to be rejected by those families. And oftentimes those families were religious. So as a young person, even hearing how much the community was supportive of gay people, I had a real fear that they would not be supportive and loving of me. And I turned out that turned out to be wrong. But I did not know that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=255.0,421.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nUh, even though you might not have had this specific language, it sounds like at an early age you thought of yourself as somewhat non-binary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=421.0,431.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, no, I don't know. Uh, I definitely didn't have the language. Uh, I can tell you, I remember reading about trans people, and I did not feel that was me. And that was because when I was reading about trans people, I was only reading about binary trans people. People who were identified as male when they were born and discovered they were female and vice versa. There didn't seem to be people who were not strictly that. Um, and I. I knew I wasn't that. So in my mind, for the longest time, I thought the only option of who I was was a cross-dresser, and there was something that seemed deviant about that. Um, but also, I just felt like I didn't have space to. Explore and figure it out either. Um, so I, I tried not to, to an extent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=431.0,500.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nI. How do you think your folks would have described you as a young child?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=500.0,508.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nHmm. I think I, uh, I was seen as as bright. I think I was seen, um, as somebody who sometimes had a lot of empathy and other times seemed distant. Um, I know I was seen as creative. Uh, I was encouraged to pursue things like, uh, creative writing. When I was young. I seemed to be good at it. Um, I think my, my parents thought very highly of me and were very proud of me. Mm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=508.0,543.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nWhat was your relationship like with your sister?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=543.0,546.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, so I have a, uh, biological brother who's a little bit older, and I have a biological sister who's a little bit younger than me. And, uh, I was close, uh, to them, for the most part. Uh, my brother, I think because we are close in age, uh, we're both close and at times combative, you know, um, like, uh, you know, we we could we could get heated with each other, but I don't think it was in any bad or unusual ways. I think that's just what happens when you are in close proximity. Um, and, uh, close in age. I shared a bedroom with my brother. Until one of us moved out, you know, um, that there was not another room for us. Um, another reason why I hesitate to say exactly what income we were in, because it's it's hard to to to to get to pinpoint that. Um, and. Uh, but I feel like we we got along very well. Um, uh, when I was a teenager, I also was. It started therapy, um, for my depression, uh, which I then, uh, you know, I eventually got a proper diagnosis for, um, uh, clinical anxiety and major depression. Uh, and, you know, I got help with that, and I think that helps. Identify. Like why I'm sometimes seen as, uh. A bit standoffish and sometimes why was big and communicative and, um, extroverted? Uh, because I was, you know, I was dealing with those things. Um, and that affects, of course, your relationship with your siblings. But I think overall they were fairly positive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=546.0,670.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nSo sharing a room with your brother, did that mean that your internet sleuthing had to be done when he wasn't around?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=670.0,678.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nSo, I mean, I so I grew up in the time of AOL dial up like that was, you know, the kind of internet I had for a while. So, uh, our computer. For most of my young life when we had a computer was in the basement, uh, and only one person could use it as once it sort of became. Normal. Very. You know, you know, not when when I was first using it. It was always supervised. I don't want to make it sound like that was not the case. Um, and the computer, when we first got it, I was in the living room, but, um, it became more practical for it to go downstairs at one point, and I, you know, we all became trusted enough to use it alone at some point. Uh, and it was just it was just more practical. So the time I spent on the internet was private. Kind of by default.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=678.0,730.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nDid your family move from Lynn to Saugus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=730.0,733.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nYeah. Uh, between the second and third grade for me. Uh, that's when we moved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=733.0,741.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd what was that transition like for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=741.0,744.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI don't remember it being particularly difficult. I switched school systems a couple of times as a kid. That was the first time I had switched school systems. And I think, uh, the trope remains true to an extent when you're the new kid. Sometimes you try to start fresh and like, be like, all right, this is going to be my identity here. And then you'll see if it works out or not. Um, uh, so, like I, I know that the beginning of starting a new school, like there was, there's anxiety there. Someone who lives with anxiety. Um, but I don't remember it lasting long. Um, you know, I made friends in Saugus, and we never stopped going back to Lim. Um, I ended up going from the Lynn public school system in the second grade to the Saugus Public school system in the third grade. And then in the sixth grade, I actually went to a small private school in Lynn. Um, and I left the Saugus Public school system again, only to return to it in the ninth grade. So like we, I, we were always going between the two. It was normal. And I had friends in both places.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=744.0,817.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nDid you continue to have extended family members in Lynn?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=817.0,821.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nYep. Oh, yeah. Uh, some of my family are absolutelyno townies. Um, on my mother's side especially, um, uh, you know, uh, the, the furthest, uh, if you, if you were born and raised in Lynn and and you didn't leave it, uh, the furthest you're generally willing to go for anything is Boston. And like, we're talking about, like, downtown Boston is a hard line. Like, why would you go any further than that? Most of everything you need is on the North Shore, you know, Revere like, that's that's your trip. Why would like you don't need to go anywhere else. Um, and like I say that with love, you know, because that's not just like a Lynn thing. That's like, so many people's mentalities. Um, and, uh, my father's family is a little more spread out than that. Uh, but we always had people in Lynn.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=821.0,875.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nWhat were you like in in high school? Were you a theater kid?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=875.0,878.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOh, yeah. Yes, I was, um, I did a lot of theater. Uh, the theater was my. Um. My comfort, uh, the theater was the reason. While figuring out depression as a teenager, I still kept going to school. Uh, it was the thing that I looked forward to. I had an amazing theater teacher in high school, um, Nancy Lemoine, and, um, uh, I felt safe and comfortable there. Uh, it was it was absolutely fantastic. I was part of the theater, kids, uh, you know, that that sort of social group. And that group, uh, had sort of like, fingers in a lot of different places and other social groups in the high school, which, uh, made it easy for me to get along with most people. Uh, there was, you know, there was some bullying because it's high school. Um, I didn't get along with absolutely everyone. I had got called into peer mediation once, you know, I got, uh, I forget exactly what they call it, but it's being expelled when you still have to go to school. They, like, just put you in a room for a few days because of that. But for the most part, that was not the case, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=878.0,956.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nDid you have any romantic relationships in high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=956.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, a little bit, yeah. Um, I. Still thought of myself in high school as a straight person with, like, cross-dressing desires. So I, uh, I dated, uh, a friend of mine, uh, Stephanie, um, who was very sweet. Um, but we both sort of realized at one point that, uh, we were dating because we're friends, and that wasn't the great reason to date. Um, I got really close to another girl at one point. Um, and we never called it dating, but I think other people did. Uh. And, uh, I think those were like, my two biggest relationships, I think in high school. Uh, I didn't really have a big relationship after that till college. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=960.0,1017.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nDid you have any male crushes growing up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1017.0,1021.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI didn't, I didn't, I couldn't I didn't grasp the idea that I might be attracted to men until well into college. Um, it it it didn't occur to me. And to this day, I'm not attracted to a ton of men. Um, but, uh, I am attracted sometimes to men. And I think as a non-binary person who interacts with a lot of non-binary people, like, I am constantly reevaluating the kind of people I'm attracted to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1021.0,1059.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nWhen do you first remember learning about the Aids epidemic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1059.0,1064.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOh, well, um, I am gonna guess early, but. And I think that's probably why I can't be more specific, because I think I knew about it fairly early on. Like I said, I, I was active online in late elementary school, and I did a lot of personal research about different things, which led to a lot of places. But also my mother is a professor of history. And, um, if we asked questions, she. Hold us and we had cable and we got access to the History Channel at one point, you know, and it if you wanted to know about something, it wasn't hard to learn about it. Um, but also, I don't think that was a topic that they shied away from, even in circles at Saint Stephen's, because like I said earlier, I always felt that Saint Stephen's had a heart and mind around, uh, social activism. Um, like, I think we knew pretty early on, uh, that Aids was a thing that not just happened, but was still happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1064.0,1136.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd, um, trying to do the math here, but you must have been around your daughter's age. 15. Um, when Matthew Shepard was brutally murdered. You remember learning about that at the time, I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1136.0,1154.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nNow I might be mixing things up right? Because when I hear Matthew Shepard's name. My mind goes to angels in America. But is that wrong? Is that the wrong event? Are you cooking angels in America?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1154.0,1171.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nUh, no. Actually, uh, I actually just saw a production of it at Central Square Theater, uh, last year, and, uh, I had wanted to see it when it was on Broadway. And I was living in New York in the 90s. So they they're not the same. They were happening around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1171.0,1190.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOkay. All right. I'm conflating. Yeah. And which I do sometimes. Um, but, um, because that's where my mind goes, like, I know I knew about Matthew Shepard. I know we talked about it. Um, but. I also feel like we talked about a lot of things. Um, when I talk with members of the, uh, the queer community, you know, it's not uncommon for people to talk about, like, very specific events. And that event is really pivotal for them. But I tend to keep going when I learn about something and a lot, and eventually it's hard to keep things completely separate. Like we talk about Stonewall, but. Things happen before Stonewall, right? Like Stonewall was something that got a lot of media attention and it was very important, but it was not the beginning. Um, and like so I don't know, sometimes when it comes to something that a lot of people think is like a signal moment, like I can't remember it because it blends into everything else I was reading about. Does that make sense?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1190.0,1261.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAbsolutely. I mean, um, I've interviewed people for this project who are in their 60s and 70s, grew up in Lynn, were going to gay bars, and did not learn about Stonewall until many, many years later. And I don't know if that kind of speaks to their, um, provincialism or just the fact that, um, you know, when you're, you're struggling day to day, the events that are immediately around you are the ones that are most important. Yeah, yeah, that said, um, I suspect given that you were around 18, you can remember exactly where you were and what you were doing, um, during the nine over 11 attacks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1261.0,1308.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nYou are correct, in fact, that I was thinking about that as we were talking about a pivotal moment that I do remember clearly, because I know what room I was in, um, because it happened while I was in high school, while I was attending classes, and I ended up being in the room that where we taught civics. Um, and um, I if I remember correctly, they kept us in that period longer, like, they didn't they like they told all the teachers, just like hold your classes as information was coming in, um, and eventually the same person who taught civics was kind of like the media production guy. I if he got the news on the TVs, um, that we had, um, and, uh, yeah, no, that was something that was like everyone was talking about instantaneously, at least where I was. Um, and there's not much else that I can say that about where they interrupted what we were doing to talk about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1308.0,1378.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nOh, uh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1378.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nIn that event, have, uh, an impact on you at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1380.0,1383.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI mean, of. Yeah. Because, um, I feel like it it it's impossible to say it didn't. Right. Like it was a obvious attack. Um, where, you know, I grew up in an age where often we were talking about, uh. Yes. Uh, the America sent troops places, but troop like, violent actions often were not seen here in the States from people from someplace else where we were already talking about SB. You know, we're talking about espionage, cyber attacks, um, like diplomatic influence, you know, like the more subtle. International actions, um, the effects of globalization. But this was. A few people, causing physical damage and ending lives on American soil. And it was just not something we had good comparison for at all. I in college, I, I did a play about it, which was weird. Um, uh, because we it had only been. I don't know, 4 or 5 years. Um, it's which and still felt very fresh, but the theatre department at Suffolk really wanted to do something new. Um, and they wanted people to have the experience on work of working on something new. And they brought in, uh, two professionals who write, uh, uh, work on plays and musicals, and we workshopped early ideas with them. They brought in a group of of active theater majors, and we we workshopped ideas, and we thought we were going to do a new take on Othello for a while. And somehow that became a musical about people dealing with their aftermath. Emotions from nine over 11. Uh, it went Off-Broadway, I think it was called Crossing Brooklyn in the end. And because the name changed a couple of times, um, and I played a kid, I was the tallest person in the production, and I played a young child, I want to say. Of 11 ish years old who had lost their parents during the attack because it took place around New York City. And, um, who was trying to sort of like, emotionally connect with their teacher and process their grief. Um, so, like, that's weird experience that I don't think a lot of people can say that they had, but like, like, that's like, I think how much it continued to be on people's minds after it happened. And of course, we still say, well, we'll never forget. Like we still say that, like we don't. We haven't stopped talking about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1383.0,1579.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd did you take some time off after high school before you went to Suffolk? Did you work for a while?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1579.0,1586.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nNo, I didn't, but I took a long time getting my degree. Um, uh, Suffolk actually hired me at, uh, to work full time before I finished my degree, and that delayed things a little bit. Um, uh, it wasn't entirely their fault. I did switch majors at one point during that time as well. I started as an international relations major. I really thought I would work for the UN or something. And, um, and taking those classes, I realized my strengths lied elsewhere, and I thought I could help people by teaching theater. I thought it was going to be a teacher. Um, and, uh, then Suffolk hired me to work with their computer system. Um, I honestly, I think a lot of that was my organization and communication skills more than my technical skills. But I did have a technical background. I worked in computers in high school. Um, and yeah, so I started I stayed at Suffolk for a while and it took me a while to finish my degree. But it wasn't because I took my ball.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1586.0,1651.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nHow did you come to work at the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1651.0,1656.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOh, yeah. So I worked for the Episcopal Church, I think, before I worked for Suffolk. I was still a college student, and, um, my brother had gotten involved with Episcopal Youth leadership, and there's a proper term for that, and that's not it. But like, they have a program where they, like, take aspiring teenagers and they build houses and they go to Israel and they they do amazing things. Um, and my brother did that for a while. And, um, my parents obviously were connected to the church, so was I. I went to an Episcopal summer camp like we always had ties to. Episcopalian. I don't think that's a word, but now it is. And, uh, my brother started working for the bookstore that the Episcopal Church owned and operated called Cathedral Crossing in downtown Boston. Um, and there's only so many religious bookstores in New England. So Cathedral Crossing served all sorts of groups, uh, not just Episcopalians. And, um, at one point I got a part time job there as well, because they needed help and I had a connection, and I lasted longer than my brother did. I think by a bit I ended up being the assistant manager. I think technically, at one point, um, and I started working at their computer system and building their website and stuff. Uh, yeah. That's it. Just from happenstance, um, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1656.0,1754.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd you mentioned, uh, earlier that your first male crush was in college. Tell me about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1754.0,1762.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, so. In college where your friends started describing me as straight but not narrow. That was the term that got thrown around a lot, as I had moved out of my parents house and got my own place. I never lived in the dorms. I went from living at home to living in an apartment. Um, I started exploring, uh, feminine and mixed gender presentation more and more and getting more comfortable with it. And I also started learning more about non-binary identities around the same time. And I still did not find myself attracted to people who were identified as men and acted like men for a while. The first people I found myself attracted to were people who identified as men, but dressed and acted very femininely, um, and uh, and that's when I sort of realized that if I'm sort of on this spectrum, of course other people are. And my attraction is also not a like a binary thing. Um, uh, and I don't remember who the first, like, manly man, like stereotypical manly man I found myself attracted to was. But I can tell you very distinctly when at one point, um, maybe like three years ago, um, which was, you know, that's not that long ago, right? I'm. I'm 40. Um, I was at an event as a sister. I don't think I was even a fully professed member yet. We were in the back room of Club Cafe in Boston. It was packed full of people and it was difficult to hear people. And all of a sudden, this gentleman who was very masculine, uh, came up to me and without consent is we're dancing like, almost like waltz dancing in a bunch of bunch of bunch of club. Um, and and he did it though, and this is why I did not say, hey, stop it. So he could talk to me. He was trying to talk to me. And his idea, probably a little intoxicated, was it was better to dance and talk in my ear than it was to just start shouting in my ear. Um. And I just found it so charming in, like, the worst red flag sort of way. Um, uh, and, um, and that's the a distinct memory I have when somebody did not seem to be crossing those, like gender definitions where I'm like, no, this is attractive. And, you know, I, you know, and I said, red flag because I'm almost ashamed. Like, that's not okay. Like you have to get permission. But like, he did it in a way that I still felt safe, like he justified it very quickly and I felt like I could have stopped him, you know, um, yeah, that, uh, that's my first memory because I don't I don't think of myself as a gay man. Obviously, I'm genderqueer. And for my sexuality, I generally use the term queer because. Because it's messy. Um, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1762.0,1962.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nTell me how you met your first wife.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1962.0,1965.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOh, okay. Sure. Uh, I met her in college. She was in my apartment. I had, uh, I had roommates, and, uh, she knew one of my roommates, and she came over for a party, and we seemed to hit it off really well, um, and we started dating, I think, fairly shortly thereafter. Um. Uh, liked her a lot, and she liked me a lot. Um. Uh, you know, like. Yeah. Like I we seem to have some chemistry. Uh, you know, I found her attractive, and, um. It seemed to work right really early, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1965.0,2015.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd when did you get married?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2015.0,2017.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh. We, uh. My wife got pregnant. Um, while we were both still in college, and we were at the point in our relationship where we kind of assumed we would eventually get married. Um, and we just wanted to be responsible and not be in college before we did that. And then when she got pregnant, we had to have that conversation and say, well, we were gonna do it. Is this an okay time to do it? Like, is this just like, did this happen maybe for a reason? Like, is this actually the right time? And we decided it was. Um, so we we got married, like a lot of people do, in response to her being pregnant. Um, and, uh, like I said, in retrospect, I think we were both a little too young and a little less experienced than I. We thought we were, and we weren't as good of a match as we could have been. Um, but at the time, it just made sense to us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2017.0,2083.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nGet the prospect of having a child scare you at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2083.0,2091.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI mean, in like the normal, the world is a scary place sort of way, you know, like we're right now, we're living in a cost of living crisis. But it's not like the world wasn't scary 15 years ago. Um, like, there was real reasons to think that this wasn't the best world to bring a child into. And I the scariest thing about being a parent is wanting to make sure for me that my child has everything they need. Um. But I wasn't scared of my own ability. Uh, like, I think I, I have a capacity to love and to to care and to work hard. Um. It's. But I can't control the world. No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2091.0,2141.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nUh, and so you both continued to go to school and work while raising this young child. That must have been a challenging balancing act.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2141.0,2152.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI think I had already started working for Suffolk. I, um, when this happened, um, and I, uh, it made sense to stay there because health insurance is great. Babies love health insurance. Turns out they don't realize it. They don't have the words to express it, but they love health insurance. My plan had been to only be at Suffolk working while I was. A student there and eventually to pursue theater. Uh, I wanted to have some theater experience, so then I could use that experience to go teach. Um, but the regular health insurance isn't really a thing for someone who is starting in theater. Um, like, your income and your social services are just not constant. Um, and so I couldn't leave a good thing when I had to take care of my family. Uh, my wife didn't work, uh, the whole time. Uh, I mean, pregnancy will do that to you for sure. Uh, and, uh, we had a lot of family supporting us, and so it wasn't a problem for the most part, you know, but I yeah, I was working and finishing my education, and she was finishing her education, and we both did. We both have those pieces of paper somewhere, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2152.0,2242.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nSo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2242.0,2244.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nUm, when your daughter was first born, um, did your family know that you were genderqueer? Nope. Nope.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2244.0,2254.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUm. And I don't know that I had that word. Honestly, I knew I was something I think I might have still been using. Crossdresser. Honestly. Um, my wife knew. Um. And, uh. Our opinion of how much it would be part of our lives changed, um, over time. Uh, you know, we it was something that would be that would come up and I would reassess how important it was to me. Um, and I felt so fulfilled, honestly, when my daughter was very young, that, uh, I felt very rarely did I feel called to pursue that aspect of my identity. I was working, and I was raising a child who was so important to me that, like, that was my life. I didn't think about my sexuality and my gender much at all during the early parts of the earliest parts of my daughter's life. And but as that. As she got older in, uh, and as I grew sort of distant from my wife, that stuff started coming back. And it was. I think it was only after my wife and I separated that I really came to understand myself as non-binary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2254.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nAnd, um, how did you come to be interested in formal drag and cosplay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2340.0,2348.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nWell, you know, I have. I've got a bachelor of science in theater arts, right? Um, and, uh, drag was always appealing. I just didn't have a lot of opportunity to express it. Like, I remember in high school hoping we would do Chicago because there's a a character. There's a reporter in Chicago whose name I can't remember at the moment who is traditionally played by a man in drag. And, uh, Mary Sunshine, I'm pretty sure that's her name. And I was like, oh, how fun would that be? I wanted to do it. And then we didn't do it. Um, and in college we did The Rocky Horror Show, the Broadway version of Rocky Horror Picture Show, and I got cast as Riff Raff, who probably does the least cross-dressing of all the male characters in that show. Um, like, I wore high heels and stockings at the end with my alien outfit, you know, um, which was funny because all my friends at that time knew that I wore other things, you know, in other ways. So, like, I like while drag was appealing to me, it whether or not like, I just didn't have time or the opportunities didn't come up. I didn't explore it until, uh, really till I started working with the sisters about five years ago. Um, and even then it was sort of like, because that's what they do, not because that's what I was looking for. Uh, yeah. Yeah, I, I might have missed your question a little bit. I started just talking. All right. No good. I did a good job. Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2348.0,2450.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nUm. Tell me about, uh. What? What is the joy for you in performing drag? Uh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2450.0,2463.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI don't perform drag like, uh, your average drag performer most of the time. So generally when we think of drag queens, kings, etc., uh, these are people who are creating a character often very different from the gender they identify with or at the very least, sort of a caricature of gender, to an extent. Right. That's a part of what drag drag is. Encompass the encompasses a lot of ideas, but that's a big part of it. And they will then go and, uh, lip syncing is sort of one of the most popular ways drag, uh, entertainers entertain. But, uh, some, uh, sing and a lot of them do like comedy or MC skills, and they're there to entertain the crowd. Right. I fell into the sisters to do social work. Uh, before I was with the sisters, I led the employee resource group at Athena Health. Um, I led, uh, I actually led two, and we finally merged them together because we had a separate one for people who identified as queer, and we had one for people who identified and non-binary. Um, and at one point, we put them together and I just became the leader of of one instead of two. Uh, that's its own thing. Why? I was temporarily the leader of two different groups. Because that's not normal. But, you know, like, I, uh, I wanted to help members of the community. I've always been somebody who wanted to help. And when I was in college, I remember going out onto the common while they were protests because all the marriage equality laws were being voted on. Um, and they were people who were for it, and there were people who were against it. And me and my college friends went out and formed a divider so that the angry people could not reach the people who were trying to get the work done. Um, like, so, like, uh, these are things that I've, I've been doing for a long time, um, to various degrees. When I left Athena Health, obviously I was no longer doing that work for Athena Health. And I went to Partners Healthcare, and I was not happy at Partners Healthcare one. I didn't feel like the work that I was doing was helping a lot of people. Um, but also there were they were a very they're a very big company. And they didn't use their employee resource groups like Athena Health did. And it's not like Saint Health was a small company. Um, so I don't think that's an excuse, but they use their employee resource groups as a social club. Um, and it kind of felt like the employee resource groups were there so they could say they had employee resource groups and it was less of a resource. Um, so I didn't even bother getting heavily involved there because it felt like there was no work to be done. Um, and uh, having not liking my job nor not having any outlet to help people, honestly affecting, uh, depression. And it was my second wife. My wife at the time said, you need to call the sisters because they had tried to recruit me while I was at Athena Health. Um, they we did an event where we invited the sisters to Athena Health to do a National Coming Out Day bingo with us. And I spoke there, and I spoke with them, and they said, you would be good at this. And I said, I'm too busy. I'm already doing the work. Um, and I didn't even call the sisters right away at that time because they seemed like clowns who ran bingo. And which is not untrue, but that's kind of what my viewpoint of them was. And that was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to help people. I tried to join a group called the degenderettes. The degenderettes are a group of people with baseball bats painted in pride flag colors, and they march at the beginning of protests and marches as a. I don't want to say they're threatening violence if people try to, uh, stop what's going on. But they have baseball bats, and they learn, like, color guard routines with the baseball bats, but they their goal is to be visible with their baseball bats. And that was very appealing to me at the time. I was like, oh, I get to be angry and help people. But, uh, they weren't active in Boston anymore. I found out, and so I didn't want to start a group. So I said, I'll try the sisters. And I learned more about the sisters, and I learned more about the work that they do. And yes, they're clowns who run bingo, but they do so much more than that. They they fight for safe spaces and they fight for health care and education and, uh, accessible housing. Um, and the work they do goes so far beyond putting on makeup and doing bingo. And I learned that the drag that they do is is has multiple purposes. One, they can entertain, they can put on these personas, these drag personas, and that is entertaining. But those personas also help them interface with the community in ways that other people can't. Because I am when I'm out as sister brother Freddy in drag and clown makeup, I am often the most outlandish person in the room, at least visually. And if I am the most outlandish person in the room and the community is accepting of me, that gives space for people to experiment with who they are in a publicly visible way with their clothing, their attitude, and they're going to be inside the tent posts because I push the tent posts way back. Um, they feel safer and they feel more accepted because we're they're making space with our bigness. Um, it's also just a lot easier for drag queen to ask you for 20 bucks for charity than it is for someone who's not a drag. There's an accessibility to drag, where not only do you not feel like you're, like, accosted or like put up, but you. I think people who don't have the money feel more comfortable saying no, because, no, it's not a guilt thing. You know, they know like we are a very specific part of the community. Um, and we're there to, to help where help can be had. But we're not there to make someone destitute. And it's like a guilt thing. There is no guilt in what we do. So, um, I started doing drag because it was part of what the sisters did, but they almost had to sort of convince me why, and I'm absolutely convinced. Um, I feel like I do so much good in drag. Um, and I already had the clothes, the Freddie, where's my clothes? For the most part, I bought very few things specifically for drag, you know, because I was already expressing gender on a broad range of aesthetics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2463.0,2916.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nTell me about what you were mentioning earlier, when you said that your second wife recommended that you get in touch with the sisters. Uh, what did she know about that part of you? And it sounds like she was largely accepting of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2916.0,2936.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOh, absolutely. Um. Uh, my second wife. Her name is Natalia. I have a fantastic relationship with her. She is amazing, and I love her. Um, we're not together anymore, right? That's why we're talking about her in these terms. But, uh, I don't regret a moment that I have spent with her. And I don't regret a moment that I continue to get to spend with her when we see each other and get to work together. All right. Um.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2936.0,2962.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nShh!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2962.0,2965.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, depression is a funny thing. It can be hard. To understand how deep you are in it when you're starting to struggle. And what's one of the things you learn when you start working with therapists and psychiatrists is what you need to do to help manage your depression, because if you have major depression, you don't get cured. You just learn better coping skills over time. Um, and sometimes it's easier for those around you to see the signs that things are getting bad than it is for you because you're struggling. Um, she knew that when I am out in the community and I have an outlet for my need to help people and interact with people, that I'm in a better place, and I didn't have that outlet. She remembered that the sisters had told me. This is something I would be good at. And we you know, I had looked them up, you know, like I knew a little bit about them before, but after I interact with them, I, I like to, I like to read things. I was a knowledge specialist. Uh, for a while, I figured out who these sisters were. I shared that information with her. I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't remember if she did some research on her own because she's a smart cookie who does things like that. And, uh, she felt it would be a good fit. You know, I think she knew that they were doing the good work. And if they saw something in me, it was worth talking to them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2965.0,3067.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nUm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3067.0,3069.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nDepression and mental illness is an incredibly complex combination of biology and environment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3069.0,3080.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nChairman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3080.0,3082.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nUm, we know that, uh, mental health disorders are often more prevalent among LGBTQ+ people, in part because of the rejection they feel from larger society. What is your own understanding of your depression and the degree to which it's connected to not feeling as if you could fully express yourself?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3082.0,3111.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nI think depression and anxiety is super complicated, right? Um, to the extent that, like most things, I think the professional community is still learning new things about it all the time. Um. I know that. Things like gender dysphoria, and wondering if I will be accepted when I do certain things and act a certain way, has been part of what makes me feel depressed. Since I was a young person. Um. That being said, I'm also pretty sure that there is a chemical imbalance in my body. Um, and I don't, I don't know. If I. Didn't identify as a queer and or genderqueer person. If I still wouldn't be struggling with depression, right? Because if there's a chemical imbalance in my body, I would probably find other things to be depressed about. Um, and like I and I know personally, uh, anxiety, one of a financial stuff is a huge anxiety trigger for me. Like, so like I there are other things that get me in my own head. Uh. But you know. Yeah. Not knowing whether someone's going to love you for who you are. That's not a great feeling, you know, especially if you're a young person. It's just not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3111.0,3213.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nHave you ever had the assistance of, um. Pharmaceutical intervention. Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3213.0,3223.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, I worked with a psychiatrist for a while, and we found some, uh, prescriptions that, uh, helped me a lot for a while when I needed more help. I am not on that anymore. Uh, I'm in a better place, uh, than I was then. And I've also had more time, um, to learn coping mechanisms. Um, I like the feeling, personally of not needing them. I don't feel any regret when I needed them and using them. Um, but, uh, when I have the ability to not need them, I feel more comfortable, you know? So I haven't been on them in years, but I have been on them, and I think they're good, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3223.0,3274.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nUh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3274.0,3275.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nGetting back to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. Yeah. How did you come up with the name Freddy and Willing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3275.0,3283.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOh, yeah. Right. So everybody chooses their own name, at least to an extent. Uh, it, uh, there's a whole process of going from I think I might want to do this to being a full member, uh, in the United States and in Canada, or at least in the United States, because I don't know all the Canadian laws. Um, every house is its own 500 and 1C3 nonprofit. Um, which means you got to keep up your paperwork with the state and do everything that any other nonprofit would do. Um, uh, and as part of sort of like, protecting that in a very practical way and also to be a good person to other people, uh, when. Yeah, when you start thinking you might want to do this, it takes at least a year before you are considered a full member. And there are three stages during that process. And everyone's path takes different lengths of time for different reasons. Oh, I'm back. And everyone's path takes a different amount of time for different reasons. Um, and um, generally there's like I said, I said there's three stages, there's aspirancy, what we call postulancy. And then, uh, the last stage is a novitiate C or you're a novice. Um, which are terms that we lovingly borrow from the way the Catholic Church runs their nuns and their stages of progression. Um, and generally in Postulancy is when you start to decide what your name might be. Um, so you're still in the process, you're still figuring out who you are, and sometimes people change their name later. Um. It's because I'm talking with my hands and I'm hitting a chord. I'm going to stop. It is generally during postulancy that you start trying to figure out your name, and that might change later on. Even after you're fully professed member, you might decide to change your name for some reason, and it's generally around postulancy that other people around you might start suggesting names that they feel like is a good fit for you. Um, and, uh, we encourage names that mean something to you that we don't think anybody else is using, and that is something that a newspaper would be comfortable printing. Right, because we do a lot of work in the community, and there's plenty of catchy names out there that might be a little too spicy for print. So those are sort of our parameters. Um, and I'll be honest, uh, uh, you can see him in the background. Right there he is. Uh, I started playing with names that I already liked, that I already felt comfortable with, and one of them was Freddie for Freddie Mercury, the lead singer, uh, of Queen, who, uh. Every. I like Queen. I've always. I've liked Queen for a very long time. Um, and, um, I've taken a lot of inspiration from. Their songs and their music videos over the years. And I said, well, wouldn't it be cool if I could use Freddy? Because not only do I have that connection, but Freddy is kind of gender neutral in a lot of ways nowadays. Like there are people who use variations of that from, uh, who are male, female, non-binary, um, and uh, when I came upon the idea of Freddy and willing, you know, that sounds like ready and willing, uh, which was a big part of what I felt I was as a sister. Um, when you're a sister, you start developing a sense of what your personal ministry is like. We all engage with what the House's ministry is. We read Joy, we try to end stigmatic guilt. Um, we use the tenets of that. Uh, the way we approach the community is through love, adoration, respect, uh, protection and service. But what are you doing? Why are you here? Like, what's what are the things that are really important to you? And I came to understand mine as a ministry of ushering. I really wanted the entire community to always feel welcome and part of the community, because the LGBTQIA two plus community is not immune to the problems of humanity. And sometimes we get insular, and sometimes we get gatekeepers, and we feel like we reject people in order to protect what we have. And that never sits well with me. I wanted to make sure that people felt that they were part of this, uh, that they were welcome, that they were safe, that they were they were cherished and loved. Um, and that's where Freddy and Willing comes from.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3283.0,3593.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nSo, um.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3593.0,3595.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nThe sisters, um, in their emulation of nuns, I think, on one level are engaging in a kind of reverence for the activism and community organizing of nuns. Uh, but also, you know, there's a degree of playfulness and humor that comes along with that. Um, have you ever gotten the sense that you're being perceived as mocking nuns?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3595.0,3627.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nSure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3627.0,3627.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nSo as it turns out, I even as a 40 year old, I still have access to the internet. And I, you know, I hear things that I read things. Um.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3627.0,3637.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S3\n\nYour parents will.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3637.0,3638.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nLet you use it in the basement. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3638.0,3643.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nOh, I wish honestly, there was something kind of fun about using a computer in the partially finished basement. Uh, it was like the bat cave, you know? But, um. Uh, yeah. Um. It's interesting. Uh, there is an academic whose name I forget at the moment who wrote a book, uh, all about the sisters. It's called, uh, Queer Nuns. I'm almost positive it's called Queer Nuns. It's in the other room. Look at it right now. Uh, because I want a copy. It's a great book. And it is an academic. Breakdown from traveling all around and interviewing people and really trying to understand how we came to do this and why we do it. Um, and it was published before I even got started. Right. I've never met this person who wrote this book. Uh, and the phrase that she comes up with is serious parody, and I love it. I think it's a great phrase, uh, because what we do is. Oh. What we do is absolutely in a reverence and respect for the work that nuns do. But there is parity, right? Uh, we are getting attention. You know, our outfits are not often a one for one recreation of what a nun wears. And, uh, we really play with the bounds of that, but we take the nun part really seriously. Um. I take vows. I took everyone in my order. Once you reach fully professed member, you take vows. And we don't take those vows to any sort of God or higher power. Though some of us are religious, we take our vows directly to the community. So when people ask like, why are you mocking nuns? Our answer is generally we are nuns. Um, we're doing the work. Uh, and we we mean it. And the times that I've had the opportunity to interact with Catholic nuns, because it's generally Catholics aren't the only people who have nuns. Sometimes the Catholics pretend they are, but they're not. But there tends to be the comparison we get, because a lot of the stuff we have borrowed is borrowed from them. Um. They have been positive interactions, especially people who have been nuns for a while. We talked about Aids and HIV earlier, and if you look at some historic documentation around the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, we really sort of like got bigger during the early stages of the Aids crisis. A lot of people think we started because of it, which is not true. That's just sort of like when we got stronger. Um, there are pictures of our members in the hospitals next to Catholic nuns, because a lot of medical professionals weren't comfortable serving people with Aids. And so who did it? The nuns did. And it was both kinds of nuns that were doing it side by side. Um, most nuns are out there to serve the community, and they're not afraid to look up what we do. And not just like the first appearance of us. And the worst interaction, honestly, that I've had is someone saying, I just I wish it looked a little different, but I appreciate everything you do. And generally it is the people who like the idea of nuns but don't, in my experience, do the work and don't actually interact with nuns to hear their opinion that get upset about our appearance with what we do. Uh, last summer especially was a prime example out in LA. Uh, the baseball team there. And I'm not a sports person. I forget the name of the baseball team. Invited the LA sisters to be honored during their pride baseball game, and it was all over the news for like a month nationally because people got upset that the sisters were being honored when they mock nuns. And the team originally pulled the invitation, and then they sort of did the work and, uh, they invited the sisters back. And they stood by that decision and a ton of groups came out and said, we don't we're not doing LA pride if the sisters aren't doing LA pride. And they stood by the decision as well. And, um, even though we are out here in Boston, not close to LA, we were getting comments on our Facebook posts as if we were the LA sisters. Um, and we were talking, which was great in a lot of ways, because even though some people came from a position of hate, we got to talk to so many people that we wouldn't normally get the chance to talk to. And honestly, we got to. To convince a lot of people to do a little bit more reading about what we do, and I think that was a net positive. Like a lot of people were like, oh, I didn't know this. I only knew what I heard on the news or I read on this blog post, and I'm quickly learning that y'all are doing the work. You know, like, I, we, we, we serve the queer and trans community. We absolutely do. But in doing so, we serve everyone when we are out there collecting money for Bridge Over Troubled Waters. They're not just housing queer people, they're housing people who need to be housed. Um, you know, we gave $1,000 grant to a food pantry last year so they could buy bread and fresh vegetables for a year because they couldn't get that from the Boston Food Bank. And that's not going to just benefit hungry queer people. That's going to benefit hungry people. Um, and that's so much of the work we do is is for everyone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3643.0,4021.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nTell me about the Perpetual Indulgence portion of the organization's name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4021.0,4029.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nSo, um, the sisters came about in San Francisco, and it kind of in an interesting way. You might say it's an accident. You might say it was meant to be. Right. Depending on your perspective on how life works, it was a sort of a bad attitude. In the Castro district of San Francisco, people were upset about all sorts of things. It was 1979. And there was a handful of gay men hanging on in an apartment wondering what they could do about it, and they realized they had these real retired nun habits that they had acquired from a convent who was no longer using them because they were putting on a production of The Sound of Music. It was long done, but they still had them. And they said, what if we put them on and walked down the street and just interacted with people? And that's how it started, and people loved it, and it brought joy to people. And somebody said, hey, we have a baseball game coming up this weekend. Would you come and just be there and sort of be our non cheerleaders? And they did. They said, sure, why not. And then other people asked them to show up to things and they said hey would you mind passing the bucket at this fundraiser and like in your nun outfits? Because I think people would respond well to you. And eventually people started treating them like nuns, um, nuns for their specific community in San Francisco. And they got together and they said, shoot, if we're nuns, we should figure out what that means, because I think we're nuns now. Um, and so that's where perpetual indulgence come from. They started sort of figuring out more about what nuns did and how they handled themselves. And they looked at what convents called themselves and why. And there's an old practice of indulgences. The church used to sell indulgences, where, if you had sinned, one of the ways you could redeem yourself and get into heaven was to pay money to the church, and they would forgive your sins. And they they locked onto that idea, and they said, well, what if we just. Gave people. Giveness forever. What if the indulgence was perpetual? And what if it didn't cost any money? And that's where perpetual indulgence comes from. And you see us play with that idea in a lot of other ways now, because over time, we've become big proponents for sex education and safe, consensual adult play. And really, the idea that if you're not hurting yourself and you're not hurting other people, then you shouldn't feel bad about the things you are and the things you do. Um, and so we also encourage people to indulge and to find things that bring them joy and to not feel bad about it when it's not hurting anybody. Um. So yeah, that's where it came from. And it's grown. Certainly. You know, it's it's real. It's real sincere. Ask of the community to love and forgive themselves.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4029.0,4238.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nUm, that was, uh, profoundly, uh, interesting and informative. Uh, mini mini history of the organization. Um. There's been quite a bit of backlash against queer people over the past decade. I'm interested in what you make of that and the degree to which you are optimistic about the future.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4238.0,4265.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nUh, I think that I am sometimes optimistic about the future, because I have to be, because if I'm not optimistic, that's not good for someone with depression and anxiety. I have to find reasons to keep fighting. But also, I am constantly inspired by how many people are fighting. I honestly and truly believe the people who want. The world to be more accepting and loving, and to want everyone to help each other outnumber the people who are spouting hate. Um, I think hate is generally a tool that people use to unite each other when they don't want to do something that takes more work. I think it's more work to love than it is to hate. Um, and I don't think that hate is going to win. Uh, I'll give you a very practical example. Uh, last Wednesday. Today's Wednesday. I don't know that that anyone knows what day of the week it is when they watch this interview. Today is Wednesday, though. And last Wednesday I was at, uh, the Boston City Hall. Uh, the Boston City Council invited the sisters to come out. Um, and they, uh, brought together a group of, I want to say about 25 different groups that operate in Boston and around Boston, supporting the community that have some sort of ties to the greater queer community. Um, and they we all received a citation, which I hate that word sometimes because I feel like citation is like you got in trouble. But when the Boston City Council gives you a citation, it's a good thing. It means that you're doing great. Um, and they, uh, of those groups, they asked five of us to speak. And I was one of the people that they invited to speak. Um, and I got to address not just the city council, but all these other groups doing the work and looking around the room. I already recognized a lot of these people, even though it was quite full, because the sisters don't do this stuff alone. We're constantly reaching out to groups who are doing the work, and there's so many. There's so many people fighting for each other. In anything. It's easy to look at that and say, oh, well, they shouldn't have to. Like, there shouldn't be all these people who have to fight, but I, I can't help but think about it in a more positive way and think that it's a representation, because this is just like a small portion of these groups. These groups are much bigger than the people who are standing in Boston City Hall that day. Um, it's it's remarkable how many people are willing to go out and put themselves on the line to fight for strangers and to fight to make people better. And I really think it's inherent in who we are. And oftentimes when people are spouting hate, it's because. They've been convinced they're not being hateful. They've been convinced that what they're doing will make things better. Um, so and I'll harken back to what I said earlier, when there was all that controversy around the sisters last year, and it brought hate to our social media and to our email, and I got to see people change their minds because they finally heard something different, and they were invited to figure it out for themselves. I think you are muted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4265.0,4498.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S1\n\nThe, the notion of, um, large numbers of people fighting on behalf of the rights of others. Um, I think is a very fitting way to end our interview, given that it is Juneteenth today. And one could make the case that, uh, that is very much, um, in the spirit of the day. So thank you for telling us your story, for being so open and honest and informative.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4498.0,4531.0"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/transcript/69800/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER_S2\n\nThank you for having me. I'm really happy that I got to do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4531.0,4536.755"}]},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Brian Liberge index [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My family had little when I was young.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=187.94,255.14"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Saint Stephen's was a huge part of my life.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=255.14,359.16"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I feared not being loved and supported.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=359.16,433.68"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did not feel like I was binary trans.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=433.68,618.96"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I started therapy as a teenager.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=618.96,881.24"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did a lot of theater in High School.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=881.24,1017.63"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Being non-binary, I constantly reevaluate my attractions.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1017.63,1457.63"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In college I did a play about 911.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1457.63,1587.29"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I took a long time getting my degree.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1587.29,1764.34"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think of myself as genderqueer, not gay.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1764.34,1968.24"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I met my wife in college.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=1968.24,2244.37"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Genderqueer was not part of my young family.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2244.37,2342.84"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had few opportunities to perform drag.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2342.84,2454.68"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm not your average drag performer.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2454.68,2516.3"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I joined the Sisters to do social work.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2516.3,2750.13"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence do so much good.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2750.13,2965.72"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Sisters helped me cope with depression.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=2965.72,3111.08"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Depression is a complex mix of biology and environment.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3111.08,3284.99"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I chose the name \"Freddie and Willing.\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3284.99,3657.48"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We are nuns and do the work of nuns.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=3657.48,4030.26"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The church sold indulgences. We give them freely.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4030.26,4265.94"},{"id":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328/index/84666/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't think that hate is going to win.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://througharainbowlens.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2385/collection_resources/132546/file/247328#t=4265.94"}]}]}]}